Tapi, perbezaan, tiada perbezaan ketara antara CPG 2005 dengan 2021. [65] PW7 gave his opinion that the dental officer should have conducted a thorough examination and documented his findings properly. A thorough examination of the oral cavity would enable the dental officer to give the patient some options on the treatment. He stated: Sepatutnya kita perlu melakukan pemeriksaan secara menyeluruh sebenarnya. Kita boleh, sebenarnya untuk dalam mulut, apa ini, finding dalam mulut adalah, adalah usually first sign untuk disease yang lain. Contohnya kalau pesakit yang ada HIV biasanya kita akan jumpa yang ini dalam immunocompromised patient. Kita akan jumpa jangkitan kulat. Kita panggil candidiasis. Ataupun kita akan jumpa kalau HIV, kita akan jumpa pembengkakan kelenjar dan pembengkakan nodus lympha. Dan Kaposi sarcoma adalah satu-satu keadaan di mana, satu tempat seperti lelangit atau lidah menjadi hitam. Jadi sebenarnya dalam mulut itu kita sudah dapat tengok. Immunocompromised, contohnya HIV, pesakit dengan long term steroid, pesakit dengan uncontrolled Diabetic. That one is a telling sign. Usually dia akan ada Candidiasis, kulat which is not common we see in healthy patient lah Yang Arif. Jadi kita kena melakukan peperiksaan menyeluruh dan cuba untuk, bila kita ada jumpa satu-satu2 finding, kita akan bagi treatment option. … first episode of pain it's not, not an indication untuk removal of the Impacted third molar. Ataupun kita boleh monitor kalau first pain. And then subsequent pain, then we can offer, we can offer surgical removal or if the16 tooth, when we assess the tooth root. Is very close to the nerve inside the bone, we can offer coronetomy. We just cut the crown part, so that the gum will cover the root, provided the the tooth is not caries. If caries even though it's close to the nerve you have to remove. But you have to tell the patient there is high chance of nerve injury … [66] From the above PW7 was telling the Court that the dental officer, D1, should have made a thorough examination of the deceased’s oral cavity but he never stated that she ought to have declared her diabetes condition to him when the first history taking process was done. In this regard, I found that the evidence of all the other experts and treating doctors on this issue of declaring the patient’s underlying medical condition were consistent with each other i.e. the patient should have made the declaration in the history taking process in the first place. The importance of such declaration is because then the treatment and plan of treatment of the patient would have been managed differently in accordance with the relevant SOP or CPG. But D1’s notes stated that there was “no known medical illness (NKMI), no known drug allergy (NKDA), no known food allergy (NKFA)”. This notation was pursuant to information supplied to him by the deceased. PW7 continued with his evidence further at page 461: …from the timeline, from the duration, from 20th November to the 16th January 2008, patient didn't mention any pain. There's no more pain around that. So based on this medical report, I assume patient have never experienced pain after the first episode. It can come the second episode on 16th. There is no complaint. What's stated here complaint of nil. No other complaint from patient, whether it's pain, mouth opening difficulty. That's all. Patient come for appointment straight away for MOS. [67] The Plaintiff contended that D1 should not have proceeded with the MOS on 16.1.2018 because the deceased was not suffering from any more pain. But PW7 only assumed that she never experienced pain after the episode. His assumption contradicted with the evidence of DW1, DW2, DW9 and DW11 whom all had told the Court that based on the deceased’s glucose reading of 36.5, the deceased must have been suffering from diabetes, particularly Diabetes Mellitus Type 1. It would have been impossible that she would not have pain in her gums on the surgery day given her very severe diabetic condition. [68] For completeness, I have reproduced PW7’s evidence on his opinion (on the MOS of the third molar) as follows: So berdasarkan kepada pendapat doktor, sebagai doktor pakar gigi, adakah dikira sebagai perlunya dicabut gigi third molar? Pada masa ni, sebab pesakit tidak menunjukkan apa-apa tanda-tanda sakit. Tak ada apa-apa active complain. Bagi saya adalah fair untuk kita, untuk kita bagitahu dia monitoring is the best instead of cabut terus. We have to give option to the patient. … Daripada perenggan pertama, ‘The removal of third molars is not indicated if they are asymptomatic and free of any pathology, like the pathology lah, and as long as a good oral hygiene is maintained” and kalau tengok recommendations for conservative management, asymptomatic and pathology free impacted third molars need not be removed but would advice periodic review, provided patient can maintain good oral hygiene. We have to reinforce oral hygiene to the patient not only brushing, gurgle and flossing around the area. So, kat situlah saya tengok pada guideline. … Elemen, di sini kita ada 5 elemen. 5 general element. Elemen yang pertama adalah jangkitan. Kalau tuan Syukran tengok, removal of any symptomatic wisdom tooth should be considered. Especially where there have been one or more episode of infection. Such as pericoronitis, Cellulitis, excess formation, untreated palpal or pericarpal pathology. A first episode of pericoronitis, like I said before, a first episode is not indication. Unless particularly severe pain, should not be considered as indication of surgery. Yang saya mention tadi from NICE. National Institute of Clinical Excellence UK in 2004. Yang ni memang clear cut, infection with severe pericoronitis. And then caries. Caries is indication. Because why? Because once there is a caries there, because of infection, very difficult for the GP to restore. Because of the usually, gigi terimpak ni. Gigi third molar ni, dia akan, dia tidak akan sama level dengan gigi yang biasa. Jadi untuk kita, buat tampalan tu adalah sangat-sangat susah. Sangat-sangat susah. Sebab lagi satu masalah, untuk dari segi tampalan tu lekat ke tak? Sebab kita susah nak isolate gigi tu…. … So base kepada si mati ni, Siti Hawa ni, adakah ianya wajar dicabut? Tidak wajar bagi saya. Adalah kerana dia adalah satu episod sahaja. Itu pun episod pertama. Tidak menunjukkan dia ada pericoronitis. Cuma ada. Minor pain dengan inflamed sahaja gum. Tak ada sign of, tak ada Clinical sign of pericoronitis. Sebab dia buka mulut normal. Dan tidak di mention pasal pain score. … Baik teruskan Doktor. Kalau dilihat di sini ya diagnosis yang diberi oleh Doktor Ho adalah bertepatan tetapi Doktor Ho sepatutnya, disebabkan bengkak ini telah merebak ke sebelah yang normal, sebelah kiri, ini adalah diagnosis clinical symptoms bagi Ludwig Angina. Bila Ludwig Angina ni in celulitis state kita biasanya kena, he need to refer to superior straightway. Kena refer ke oralmaxila surgeon and pesakit ni perlu di-admit untuk bagi intravenous antibiotic sebab in celulitis stage kalau kita bagi, kalau kita bagi yang tab. Sebab lambat lah. Dia bukan lambat. Dia tak berkesan, sebab vesel dekat situ dikompres. Jadi dia tak boleh nak masuk and then dia punya, kita tak tahu jenis bakteria yang ini. Yang dia bagi dia adalah broad spectrum. Dia macam, dia gas. So usually kalau management Ludwig Angina, kita akan admit the patient bagi intravenous. Kita akan buat incision untuk release the pressure. And the fluid from the, from the one we hantar to makmal untuk kita panggil culture and sensitivity. Kita akan cuba identify organism. Micro organisma apa yang terlibat dan kita akan bagi antibiotik yang berkaitan yang boleh membunuh bacteria itu Yang Arif … Ok ya. Okey, Ludwig Angina ni adalah rare complication in young and healthy adult. Jadinya, this one because of rapidly increased size of swelling already crossed the midline. So, patient might have some underlying immunocompromise. Always bear in mind if patient very rapid spread because swelling after MOS is only confined to the space only. It's never crossed the midline. Ini satu kalau kita tengok gambar, yang diberi Yang Arif, memang diagnosis clinical adalah Ludwig Angina. Ludwig Angina, jadi, management macam saya beritahu tadi, kita perlu consult superior and maybe, kita memang perlukan inpatient. Kita kena admit patient. We have to give intravenous antibiotic and we have to decompress the cellulitis because if we late, lambat untuk bertindak, particularly inpatient, if we suspected they have immunocompromise, they can spread to more dangerous space. We have a lot of dangerous space at the back. Kita ada monizid…. … Baik. Doktor, berdasarkan kepada pengalaman dan kepakaran doktor, doktor ada bagi tahu bahawa kes kaitan Cellulitis dengan Ludwig Angina ini adalah rare complication. Baik, berdasarkan kepada pengalaman doktor dah berapa banyak kes yang doktor handle berkaitan dengan kes seperti kes simati ini. Kes yang Ludwig Angina di sepanjang tempoh saya berkhidmat di Universiti Sains Malaysia, dari saya permanent officer ke specialist ini adalah kurang sebenarnya, rare. Kebanyakannya adalah pesakit yang datang dengan kita panggil immunocompromise state. Kalau healthy patient biasanya tak tak ada, unless patient tak jaga oral hygiene, patient tak take antibiotic that we provided, so ada infection. Biasanya immunocompromise state kita ada kaitan Ludwig Angina but with the immediate decompression yang kita buat dan remove all the (inaudible:12:48:37) and we intubate the patient, we admit the patient with antibiotics, usually patient will survive even immunocompromised state. Because in immunocompromised state, like HIV or diabetic we have to make sure that there is no progressive of the swelling make sure that there is no progressive of the swelling because usually if there is progression the swelling will be very fast. So it will affect a lot of dangerous space. Dangerous space at the back of the throat. Dangerous? Is it dangerous space? Dangerous space. At the back of the throat, danger, bahaya. We call it dangerous space in medical term, the swelling from here, from here also carries a risk of edema. If let's say infection already cross, we call it at the throat, retropharyngeal space at the back. It can spread there where it can compress the spinal cord. It can compress all the blood vessel here. So that's why patient come with very severe cyanotic because of difficulty to breathing Yang Arif. [69] The Plaintiff alleged a lot of failures on the part of the Defendants (refer to Pernyataan Tuntutan Terpinda at pages 38 – 45 of the Ikatan Pliding Terpinda Encl. 67). In regard to the main defendant, D1 who treated the deceased for her dental issue, it was his contention that D1 should not have performed the MOS on 16.1.2018 when the deceased came for follow-up appointment because she was no longer suffering from any oral pain at that time. SD1 was cross-examined extensively on a range of issues i.e. allegedly mistakes that he made, in the management and care of the deceased, amongst others: Ya. Apa saranan Doktor Ho? Pada masa itu kita check semua pada waktu itu dia tidak mengatakan mempunyai sebarang sejarah perubatan, tiada alahan ubatan dan makanan. Setelah periksa saya mendapati gigi bongsu bawah kanan tumbuh separuh dan ada gusi bengkak sekeliling gigi bongsu. Saya telah menasihati patient untuk melakukan pembedahan untuk mengelakkan jangkitan kuman pada bahagian gigi bongsu tersebut. Saya juga telah menerangkan risiko pembedahan gigi bongsu and patient juga sudah bersetuju. Dan saya telah memberikan temu janji untuk buat pembedahan pada bulan 1 16, 2018. Dan juga saya suruh dia saya menasihati sebelum datang buat pembedahan untuk mengambil sarapan pagi. … Muka surat 10, 10. Ada ya. Baik Doktor tengok kepada guideline itu muka surat 10 indication for removal are based on SIGN 1999 Level 9. Yang ini adalah guideline yang Doktor cakap tadi Doktor rujuk kepada guideline tadi untuk cabut gigi. So saya cadangkan lah kepada Doktor ya bahawasanya Doktor tidak mengikuti guideline tersebut berdasarkan kepada hanya 2 indikasi sahaja Doktor cabut gigi Siti Hawa. Saya cadangkan kepada Doktor Ho, Doktor Ho tidak mematuhi guideline tersebut memandangkan hanya 2 indikasi sahaja yang Doktor Ho beritahu Mahkamah untuk Doktor cabut gigi Siti Hawa. Setuju atau tidak? Tidak setuju. Ya. Saya tanya ikut skala ini. Requirement seorang Doktor gigi kalau nak cabut gigi dia ada 5 perkara. Infection, caries, Orthodontic consideration, Prosthetic consideration dan other pathlogy. Tapi you cakap ada 2 sahaja, bengkak dengan sakit which is not in the requirement. Bengkak itu adalah requirement juga. Saya bagitahu Doktor saya cadangkan bengkak, sakit dan Doktor tambah satu lagi infection itu tidak melayakkan Doktor untuk cabut gigi lagi. Pada masa itu? Betul okey. Baik soalan saya seterusnya setuju atau tidak saya cadangkan kepada Doktor bahawa penemuan klinikal yang Doktor bagitahu tadi itu indikasi tadi itu adalah tidak bertepatan dengan guideline yang diberikan. Tidak setuju. … Kalau ikutkan muka surat 9 management guideline ini hanyalah sebenarnya recommendation for conservative management iaitu asymptomatic and pathology re impacted 3rd molars need not be removed but would advise periodic review. Setuju atau tidak? Setuju Jadi saya cadangkan kepada Doktor betul lah apa yang Doktor tulis dalam rekod ini Doktor telah diagnose bahawasanya akibat cabut gigi ini dah ada jangkitan kuman cellulitis. Yang wajib dirawat dengan segera. Setuju? Setuju. Setuju. Pada masa yang sama setuju atau tak saya cadangkan Doktor Ho telah melakukan cabutan MOS terhadap 3rd molar gigi milik Siti Hawa tidak complete 100%. Maksud saya ada kepatahan sisa gigi dalam gusi Siti Hawa. Tidak setuju. Tidak setuju. Dan saya cadangkan kepada Doktor Ho sebagai seorang pegawai pergigian yang bertanggungjawab Doktor kena rekodkan cabut gigi bongsu itu completely in one-piece Setuju? Sebagai Doktor gigi berpengalaman Doktor bertanggungjawab untuk merekodkan cabut gigi bongsu completely dalam satu piece. Completely. Setuju. [70] When shown the alleged tooth of the deceased which he had extracted, the dentist said he could not remember. The learned Federal Counsel objected the attempt to introduce the said tooth because there was no guarantee that it was indeed the deceased’s tooth. Photographs taken by the Plaintiff of the said tooth were also shown. The Court found that in the clinical notes of D1, he stated that the “Impacted 48 elevated out completely in one piece”. Even the Court could not know for sure whether the tooth produced by the Plaintiff was indeed the deceased’s that was extracted by D1. Nevertheless, I noted that PW7 told the Court that if the fracture resulted in about 3-4 mm of the root being left behind, the dentist would just leave it there as the risk of nerve damage is greater. The Defendants’ expert, DW9 had also given the same opinion on this. Moreover, PW7 had said there was a risk of contracting alveolar osteitis, an inflammation of the tooth socket. But he himself stated that alveolar osteitis is usually associated with a long operation, which was unlike in this case where the MOS performed by D1 was a very short surgery. PW7’s evidence was: Kepatahan akar secara umumnya, jika kepatahan akar kurang daripada 3, 4 atau 3 mm, kebanyakan kita akan tinggalkan di situ. Sebab risiko untuk membuang akar itu adalah tinggi. Sebab di bawah akar itu ada saraf dan tulang. Jika kita cuba untuk membuang, kita akan ada risiko menyebabkan kecederaan saraf dan tulang. Tetapi jika akar ini panjang lebih daripada 5 mm, kita sepatutnya membuang akar tersebut untuk mengelakkan jangkitan. Disebabkan kepatahan itu, terdapat saraf gigi yang masuk melalui akar itu terekspos kepada soket. Makanan mungkin melekat di situ dan akan ada jangkitan kuman ataupun bila ada kepatahan, kadar keradangan di dalam soket itu akan lebih tinggi. Jadi pesakit akan terdedah kepada, kita panggil dry socket ataupun dalam medical term dia alveolar osteitis, di mana akar tulang yang menyokong gigi, kita panggil alveolar part of the mandible, dia terkena keradangan. Lebih terdedah kepada kena keradangan kerana masih terdapat akar gigi yang boleh berkemungkinan menjadi sumber jangkitan kuman, selain daripada makanan lekat di dalamsoket, selain daripada alveolar osteitis. Tapi alveolar osteitis usually associated with long operation Yang Arif. Kalau kita having difficulty of removal, lagi high chance untuk pesakit dapat, macam ada, macam tertinggal bone. Bila kita elevated up without split, kita give a force to the septum. Actually between the root ni ada septum. So when that septum is mobile and the root is there, so there is a chance of infection and alveolar osteitis. That's this one. [71] Faced with the divergence of opinions, the Court has to make a finding of fact one way or another. Therefore, I preferred the professional opinion of DW9 on this issue because it was more consistent with the fact that the MOS conducted on 16.1.2018 was not associated with a long operation. The Federal Court in Zulhasnimar’s Case (supra) had explained: “[70] Faced with the divergence of opinion, the trial judge preferred Dr Raman’s view which she noted was supported by medical text presented. On the other hand, she found Dr Ong’s testimony on this point to be confusing and that he prevaricated. The Court of Appeal in dealing with the issue of whether the first appellant was in labour concluded as follows: [47] Having scrutinised the evidence and the reasoning by the learned judge we are of the view that her conclusion on the issue does not warrant our intervention. … We see nothing wrong in the learned judge’s preference of one expert over the other if she can reasonably explain the preference (which in this instant we think the learned judge had done). [71] We are of the same view. The trial judge was entitled to make such findings of fact. And we found that her findings of fact on this issue were reasonably explained and supported by evidence. It is our judgment that whether the first appellant was in labour or not and whether the CS had been done and whether the appellant’s collapse could have been avoided, are clearly matters relating to diagnosis and treatment. The applicable test would be the Bolam test. It simply means that the medical practitioners had the final say as to whether there was negligence on the part of the first respondent. In this regard, there was a divergence of views among the medical practitioners who gave evidence in this case. Thus, based on the evidence and even by applying the Bolam test, the appellants had failed to prove that the first or for that matter the second respondents were negligent in diagnosing and treating the appellants.”. [Emphasis added] [72] In re-examination, SD1 explained his answers, amongst others that: i. from the 5 indicators for a third molar surgery, if only one was present, it would qualify for surgery / extraction of the molar; ii. he did not agree that he should only review and monitor the unerupted molar as otherwise, it would recur and cause further inflammation and infection; iii. there was no SOP for taking of X-ray after MOS done; iv. when he had extracted out the M48 tooth, there was no fracture and no fragment of tooth lefy behind; v. after the MOS, he had examined the said tooth himself; vi. he did not prescribe any antibiotic on 20.11.2017 when she first came to KPPB because the gum was inflamed and it would resolve on its own with gargling; vii. he did not prescribe any antibiotic on 16.1.2018 because the surgery was in a very short period of time and conducted in a sterile environment, and there was no complications with the extraction of the unerupted third molar; viii. the cause of death was not Ludwig’s Angina because when the deceased came to see him on 18.1.2026 there were no symptoms of Ludwig’s Angina; ix. if an individual is healthy during a MOS surgery with no complications, there would be no problem with the recovery. [73] According to D1, the indicators that he had used in opting for surgery were pain, infection and caries. The pain was associated with both lower jaws during the examination on 20.11.2017. D1 stated there was an infection which was why he noted “surrounding gums inflamed”. It was in evidence and the records that the second molar (M38) next to the unerupted third molar (M48) also needed to be taken out (extracted) later because it was affected by caries (refer to page 9 of CBOD). The deceased was supposed to come again on 23.1.2018 to remove the suture and also for consultation in regard to the tooth M38. D1 was just following the Recommendation 1 of the CPG 2005 that “Removal of third molars may be considered to reduce the risk of dental caries in the adjacent second molars”. PW7 disputed that at most the infection was just a minor one i.e. gingivitis and not a more serious one such as pericoronitis and therefore, it could have been conservatively managed first instead of opting for removal of the third molar. His view was not shared by DW9 and D1. According to them, once a tooth has caries, it could no longer be saved (distal caries on the second molar). [74] I also refer to the sub-topic of “Asymptomatic Third Molar” that was raised by the Plaintiff. It stated: “The prophylactic removal of asymptomatic third molars is defined as removal of third molars in the absence of local diseases. Based on a Cochrane systematic review, there was insufficient evidence to determine removal of asymptomatic impacted third molars. However, consideration needs to be given to the risk to the adjacent second molar or there may be other possible risks to retention of third molar due to patient’s medical or surgical condition. The clinician needs to balance the risks and benefits with patient’s involvement.”. [75] I will come back to this issue further below as I need to deal with the evidence of DW9 first. Since I have reproduced parts of PW7’s evidence above, it is necessary also to look at the evidence of DW9 who was the Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeon that testified for the Defendants. She has been a specialist in this field since 2013. DW9 had explained to the Court that based on the SOP, all patients above 30 years old, should have their blood pressure reading taken for monitoring before the patients go into the surgery room. But in this case, as the patient/deceased was lesser than 30 years old, it was not mandatory to follow the SOP. The more pertinent excerpts have been reproduced as follows (page 970 onwards): Doctor, now I'm moving on to second issue. In your second issue, whether the antibiotic should be prescribed to the Plaintiff after the minor oral surgery. Okay Doctor, have mentioned here, antibiotic prophylaxis may be indicated for minor surgery with a high degree of difficulty and if duration of the surgery is predicted to be long. And Doctor was referring to one CPG. Right? Yes. Okay. Can you please show to the Court which Appendix exactly you are referring to? If I may assist, page number 131. First is the recommendations number 130. Antibiotic prophylaxis is not indicated for lower third molar surgery. So 131 shows that antibiotic prophylaxis, recommendations antibiotic prophylaxis may be indicated for minor oral surgery with the high degree of difficulty in which the duration of the surgery is predicted to be long. So Doctor so can you explain what is the position in this case based on this referring to the CPG? One is because from the Doctor's notes, it's stated that the tooth was removed with just a buccal flap raised without any bone removal. And it can be elevated out as one wholepiece. And that means the duration is very short only. No need cutting of the tooth. … Doctor, now I'm referring you to the third issue where you have discussed about the Ludwig's Angina. Okay so based on your expertise and experience, can Doctor briefly explain what actually Ludwig's Angina means and what is your finding on this case? Briefly. Ludwig's Angina is actually a life-threatening diffuse cellulitis involving all the soft tissue of the floor of the mouth and also the neck. So in this case, we will say that there is no Ludwig's Angina because the patient when come to the doctor, when the dentist examine it, there is no risk of floor of the mouth and also there is no sub-mandibular swelling. The Ludwig's Angina usually occurs when the infections that spread into the neck spaces. … So it's not swollen? It's not swollen. Based on the documentation, when the doctors, dentist examine the patient on the 18th of January, it stated that there is no raised of floor of the mouth and no sub-mandibular swelling noted. It's only left facial swelling. Left lower. … Okay now I'm moving on to issue. I'm referring you to the second last sentence. However, patients with medical conditions such as diabetes mellitus, immunosuppression may be prone to get infection. Doctor, can you explain on this? Actually, patients who is diabetes or immunosuppression means those that who are on chemotherapeutic agents, or on radiotherapy patients, they are more prone to infection. So we have to tackle the infection very early and in view of their immune system is not as good as the normal lay persons, we will start the prophylaxis antibiotic to prevent the infection. So what about the diabetes mellitus condition? Okay. Diabetes mellitus condition will make persons more prone to the infection because of their blood sugar is higher. So this will make the oral bacteria that proliferate very fast which is and sometimes it is difficult to control the infection and infection can spread very fast compared to normal people. Doctor so my question is, if let's say the condition of the diabetic mellitus was disclosed earlier, whether the way of treatment for the dental procedure would be different? What is your comment on this? If patients inform the Doctor earlier about the medical condition like diabetic, first we will check the blood sugar. If the blood sugar is beyond the normal lay person, like fasting blood glucose is supposed to be 7 or if the patient is post-renal is supposed to be 11, if it is above that we may defer the surgery. Or another thing is we may also refer the patients to the medical Doctors to control the diabetic first. In view of it is very easy for them to prone to infection. So normally we will stop the procedure, means we will not proceed for the surgery. … So this was a comment by the Plaintiff expert. And just now when I asked Doctor, Doctor have mentioned about 4 pericoronitis. Right? Yes. And Doctor was saying that there was a kind of inflammation surrounding the gum, gingiva. Doctor, can you explain based on your explanation just now and based on this comment? Actually, I think this is contradict because the patient, referring to the report, the page 6, the Doctor himself also typed that surrounding gingiva inflame. Page 6 on the same PBOD 7. Page 6? Yeah. It stated that tooth impacted with partially erupted, no swelling, no caries, no tenderness to percussion surrounding gingiva inflame. Surrounding gingiva inflame actually is part of the pericoronitis. The meaning is the same. Means the soft tissue surrounding the tooth is inflammation. … Okay, Doctor. Now I'm referring you to page number 9. Page number 9. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and line number 7 from the top. Okay. It was not mentioned in the report whether the surgery was performed under aseptic technique. Doctor, can you explain what is this aseptic technique? And the, I mean the normal SOP for the aseptic technique. Okay. Aseptic technique means the instruments or the condition is free of bacteria. So in government setting all our 30 instruments is using autoclave to stir out the instruments. … Autoclave. So? So all the instruments that prepare is in the set and is a pouch. So we are following the SOP. It is not like maybe some rural area they may use the chemical only. That is in the like Myanmar or something because they cannot afford the autoclave. So aseptic condition in the mouth is impossible because our oral cavity, you just eat, turn something. And it always is, there is a bacterial load. It is just up to whether your bacterial load is high or low. If let's say you are diabetic, meaning your bacterial load may be higher compared to layperson because of your oral cavity, your saliva also is more manis compared to others. So it may help the bacteria to proliferate faster compared to others. Okay, Doctor. My last question. Can you explain briefly to the Court the overall conclusion on your report? Overall, I think the dentist have practiced according to standard of procedure. [76] DW9 was cross-examined extensively by the Plaintiff’s counsel. I have reproduced the more relevant excerpts of her evidence as follows (page 997 onwards) for ease of reference: Setuju atau tidak saya cadangkan kepada Dr. Ch'ng, Dr. Ho menjalankan prosedur MOS 48 bagi mengelak ataupun avoid jangkitan kuman tidak termasuk dalam indikasi MOS 48. Tidak setuju. …